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How far was King John successful in his relations with the church?

King John’s relations with the church fluctuated due to his attempts to establish some kind of control in the church similar to his father Henry II and it could be said he was far from successful due to his relationship with the Pope in the earlier years and issues relating to Norman churches. However, it could be argued that John was quite successful in his relations with the church because of the amount of support he received and the implications of his submission in 1213.

John’s relationship with the church in the earlier years of his reign could be viewed to be successful as he managed to secure 8 supporters by 1207, 5 of which were royal clerks including Joselin, Bishop of Bath, Simon Sutwell, Bishop of Chichester and Giles de Braose, Bishop of Hereford. This meant that he had no trouble in imposing his will upon episcopal elections and thus reinforces that his relationship with the church was good, however, it could be argued that he had issues when attempting to appoint his candidates to positions of power within the church – challenging the idea of whether or not John was successful in his relations with the church. A key incident is seen where the cathedral chapter of Lincoln and Pope Innocent III refused to support John’s appointee, Peter des Roches to become Bishop of Winchester. As a result of this, John kept the seat vacant until 1203 but even then, William of Blois was appointed against his wishes, whom Innocent III also rejected. It wasn’t until 1205 in the third election where Innocent III decided to pick Peter des Roches, John’s candidate and this indicated that John had better luck but didn’t necessarily prove that his relations with the church were successful in the earlier years. Whilst it is true that John was successful in his relations with the church to some degree, matters regarding the Norman churches had challenged this. This was due to Philip II’s interference as he promised greater freedoms to Norman bishops and as a result of this, Norman churches had started to grow independent. This is evident in Lisieux, where the cathedral chapter sought to elect its own candidate without royal approve and also in Sées, where John’s nominee for Bishopric was rejected by the canons of Sées, electing Silvester instead. John under papal pressure and the threat of an interdict against Normandy had no choice but to allow the election. It is debatable whether or not John was successful in his earlier years of his reign because although he managed to secure the support of 5 royal clerks, he had lacked influence over Norman churches and appointments and therefore purports that his relations with the church weren’t so successful and that it was purely luck that on one occasion the Pope sided with his choice of candidate.

After Hubert Walter’s death, John saw an opportunity to assert greater control over both English Churches and government by appointing one of his loyal followers, John de Gray as Archbishop of Canterbury – but the outcomes of this had shown that John’s relations with the church were far less successful as he had gotten into a dispute with the Papacy. The monks of Canterbury, aware of King John’s desire to gain power over the churches as seen in Sées, had secretly elected their own candidate Reginald and sent him to Rome to seek papal blessing. The Pope had quashed both candidates and put forward Stephen Langton and in December 1206, Innocent III sought John’s assent but knowing John’s arrogance, he had no intention of accepting someone close to the Pope as one of his chief counsellors and head of the English church and someone who was possibly associated with Philip II. John’s relations with the Church continued to deteriorate as by May 1207, Innocent III made it clear that he intended to consecrate Stephen without royal assent and proceeded to do so in June and threatened to impose an interdict on England if John refused Stephen Langton. Failing to do so, papal commissioners pronounced the interdict on England in March 1208, demonstrating the bad relations with the church. However, it could be argued that despite having an interdict on England, John was able to assert some authority over the English church as he seized the property of priests, reasoning that the English church’s land had ultimately come from the English Crown in return for spiritual support. He had also seized the mistresses of the clergy and was held for ransom which placed the clergy in a difficult position as they were forbidden by Canon law to have mistresses and celibacy was required of them by the papacy itself. Having rejecting the Pope’s orders and getting an interdict imposed upon England demonstrates that John’s relations with the church was far from successful as his candidate was quashed, the monks of Canterbury had elected their own candidate without John’s approval and the fact that his relations with Pope Innocent III was worsening, the more John refused to recognise Langton.




The excommunication that followed after the interdict on England in 1208 further corroborated the fact that John’s relationship with the church was a failure rather than a success as a king who was excommunicated raised many issues such as whether or not bishops felt the need to remain in his service and because of this, he became very unpopular amongst the bishops went into foreign exile. Although bishops of Bath, Lincoln, Rochester and Salisbury joined those of London, Ely and Worcester in exile, it had benefited John severely as he had generated enormous sums of finance from the vacant bishoprics. It would be wrong to state that John had lost complete support after the interdict and excommunication as John still had support from Peter des Roches and John de Gray who rejected papal pressure, which demonstrates that John’s relationship with the church wasn’t entirely bad as he had loyal bishops who stood beside him. Later in February 1213, Innocent III proposed his terms again and also declared that John take back the rebel bishops who fled into exile. It wasn’t until May that John decided to repair his relationship with the Pope and the church and agreed to all of the Pope’s terms and surrendered England and Ireland, receiving them back as apostolic fiefs. To some extent, it could be said that the build-up of both the interdict on England and John’s excommunication purported that his relations with the church could be seen as a failure, however it could be viewed that John strategically decided to reconcile with the Pope to prevent England from being invaded by Philip II and thus John was starting to repair his relationship with the church.

The implications of John’s submission could be seen as a humiliation for a king as the domains of England and Ireland became papal fiefs and Innocent III was John’s overlord, this meant that John was required to pay annual payments of 1,000 marks but he also had to pardon both Robert FitzWalter and Eustace de Vesu who attempted assassination on him and his heir in 1212. However, it was more of a political masterstroke because it had effectively given John what he wanted with regard to the English church and more, indicating that his relationship with the church had improved and by 1213, was more successful. A reason to why John’s relations with the church was successful was the idea that Innocent III became a protector of England and John and this prevented Philip II from potentially invading England with the hopes of reforming the English church. Not only that but Innocent III had also supported John by quashing the Magna Carta in 1215 and excommunicated those who remained opposed to John, which proves that by surrendering to the Pope, John’s relationship with the church improved and was successful. By surrendering, John had also effectively marginalised the Archbishop of Canterbury by developing excellent relationships with papal legates including Nicholas of Tusculum, Pandulph and Guala who also supported John on every issue and also had vacant sees filled with his loyal supporters. To prove that John’s relationship was successful by 1213, a key incident where Langton had gained possession of papal letters authorising extreme measures against John should he break the agreements made in May 1213 but Innocent III, happy with John’s submission he ordered the papal legate to destroy them. For John to submit to the papacy, it had proved to be an effective way to reconcile with the Pope as well as to develop strong relations with members of the church as John gained enormous amounts of support from papal legates and the Pope himself and had loyal supporters in positions of power within the church, showing that John was successful in his relations with church.

To conclude, John wasn’t entirely successful in his relations with the church as in the earlier years Norman churches were beyond John’s control as they were starting to be independent due to Philip II’s promises of greater freedoms, but also the fact that John lost a lot of support from both barons and bishops due to becoming excommunicated. However, despite the interdict and excommunication, John still had the support of some bishops like John de Gray and Peter des Roches and by submitting to the Papacy, John had reconciled with the church and relations with the church gradually become more successful as he had both the protection and support of Pope Innocent III as seen in 1215 where he quashed the Magna Carta and excommunicated those who opposed John. Therefore, John’s relations with the church was to some extent successful in the earlier years, although it deteriorated during the dispute with the papacy but relations became more successful once John had submitted to the Papacy and reconciled with the Pope, developing good relations with the church. 

Laura

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